Its far enough back that the advice here would support dropping those jobs off my rsum, though its hard to explain some quirks in my skill set without them. Sola I totally agree that ones ability to house/feed/support oneself for the rest of ones life should not be left in the hands of your hopefully-not-totally-vindictive former manager (who, by conventional job search wisdom, is the reason you left your former position in the first place). Ive got a gift card in my wallet that has been there for over a year. Usually, things still go to my favor. They do all get used eventually! Like, if the person failed to perform as well as they could in their last job, was it because they couldnt perform, or because they were being bullied by their boss and were never actually trained for the role in the first place? Im sorry thats your experience. Fergus worked for us for nine months. Its not a vendetta system. This wasnt a negotiated to let him save face thing. Also, from his experience getting hired at the organization for which OP was a board, he also has excellent references he can fall back on. I dont see that its up to me or a manager to inquire what kind of bullying or issues this person had. I worked for a non-profit earlier in my career where a new CFO was able to bring the place to its knees for similar reasons, but there were also a lot of internal politics and an incompetent Board in the mix. The . Um. I worked at what used to be a large retail chain where the common practice in my sales region was to schedule people who quit and worked out their notice for one last shift after the end of their notice period. Smooze 3 people to give good references, and then they manage to be a VP after 5 years of complete failure. We are talking about things that actually happened, and the natural consequences that follow. The best ones to give are ones that can be loaded into personal accounts (like Amazon, Dunkin, or Starbucks). #4 If youre using an online service for collecting the resumes, have it tested to be sure it can fit two documents and/or is actually passing those documents to you! Marilyn was . And the logical thing to do would be to give her a heads up ( ie, "You'd probably want to know what I found when I googled your name" -type of thing). They can do SOMETHING to keep the wolf from the door. the point stands. Are they a competent manager? If someone I recognize starts to leave a message, I may answer unless Im busy. Except they cut a ton of corners with our property. Most people check more than one reference, especially if they hear something unexpected. His response to any question was: he was always on time and dressed appropriately. Should be easy for the questioner to fill in the blanks. You may still receive calls from reference checkers who go. Why not pick a group of top resumes and ask those candidates to follow-up with a cover letter? Im out of threading, but Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est you are prioritizing this one man, who doesnt even work for you, over the rest of your employees who do. Unless there is actual criminal activity involved, dont ruin someones ability to earn a living. I was asked, off the record, if I would recommend him for a management position, and I said no, but I also said why. And this takes time, energy, and resources at the new job. I agree with Alison, speaking to this persons work with the board can easily be a proxy for speaking to their entire work, since the board governs the organization. The prove it in court standards exist to keep the mighty power of the state from unjustly punishing individuals, not to keep me from warning the next woman that this guy harassed a bunch of us and is horrible to work with. This may not be how you think any of this should work, but thats not the same as it not working this way. I have run into this a lot. Because I do not drink coffee. Its not like youre spoiling their chances based on something they cant helpthey could work on not being [glassbowls] and improve their references. Constant supervision was the closest thing I could get to saying dont hire this person. Ill probably give it as a gift. And when he moved on, he would ask people who hadnt worked directly with him, but were part of his initial charm initiative at that company, to serve as references. But if you stick to facts and make it clear what is opinion and conjecture vs facts, you are safe. But dont allow emotion to get in the way. We often see complaints from doctors about how they do unnecessary tests for fear of getting sued. This is tricky my gut was to, yes, give a bad reference. Be positive and honest. Rather than give me a $20 card that I will never use, you might as well inform me that you threw a $20 bill in the garbage on my behalf. It also means basically nothing as to if someone works really well at another company. Are they even adequately able to judge the performance of someone who they manage but whose job they dont actually understand? The son-in-law didnt need dropcloths. Its a restaurant card, and a pain to use for anything other than in-person dining. One of my staff, A, was turned down for my job and is still salty about it. It was my first post-college job and so I ended up going back to my during-college job for 2 years, as they didnt care what she had to say. Im someone who is terrible about using gift cards. The father-in-law borderline chewed him out when he saw it. A lie needs no more incentive than keeping a story straight. All of this is almost certainly true. If you bought gift cards (or any gift, really) and discovered that no one was using them, then rather than worry about that failed gifting experience, take it as your opportunity to check in with your giftees for next time. Personally, I believe everyone deserves to survive no matter what and that we should be using UBI to accomplish that. I personally hate reference checks. If that test would have shown something import, it wasnt unnecessary. Another is that water finds its own level and the comments are tolerated at the new employer, in which case the bad reference didnt prevent anything. Nothing they have appeals to me at all.). With a flair for misusing non-profits funds. After that happened a few times, I knew to combine the PDFs into one document and upload as the resume. No, not really. This is normally where references from colleagues, clients, direct reports, vendors, industry contacts etc would come in, but inflexible hiring practices like stupid reference check policies are often a problem. Its hugely frustrating because it makes reference checking a garbage box-ticking exercise in beaurocracy rather than gathering actually relevent and helpful information. how can I get my boss to talk to me in person instead of over chat? So, can employers give an employee a bad reference? Reference checkers also push for negative feedback from good references, by the way. Otherwise, there have been a couple of well-publicized implosions in the art world, none of which came as a surprise to a lot of people. OP1, Im very sorry you went through this! our boss wont speak to us, hides in his office, and drops off calls if anyone greets him, updates: unhappy with changes at work, asking to unblock a website, and more. Its taking food from their familys mouths and shelter from over their heads. My opinion, do a skills test. References are not the sole source of inputs in considering a candidate. Referees also have absolutely nothing to win or lose if the candidate is hired into a good job, or one that suits them, or even if the employer is getting a good deal. I personally feel that way If I cant give a good reference I wont give one at all. Give honest ones, emphasising their strengths, but note what their weaknesses are and state how you believe a manger could assist the person in overcoming those issues. If its just poor performance, the reference might say, New Jack was diligent and willing, but ultimately this particular job wasnt a good fit for her, or something like that. I know OP said they paid out of their own pocket, but if they used an online service that could be a possibility. Not the commenter youre replying to, but as someone who has worked in recruitment and management for a very long time, Im happy to provide a citation in the form of my own experience. I was thinking 5% are applying via another site that doesnt do that, or emailed the company directly instead of using BigJobSites APPLY NOW button or something. If no one ever calls out shitty execs, they go on being shitty execs and have zero incentive to stop their wrongdoings. Are there reasons a manager would lie about an ex-employees performance? Yes, thank you, Workerbee. This is such a weird take. One thing to think of, if OP uses the cards themselves and then someone goes to use one and it has no money, they are going to look like a huge cheapskate. Well, good thing you googled her! giving a good reference to get rid of a bad employee, I don't want to It doesnt count if it wasnt proved in a court of law is an intellectually rigorous argument only in extremely limited circumstances. Even more uncomfortable if it was paired with if you dont use it in the next three months Ill be reclaiming it. This is a great example of the point Kella was making all her references were great except one, and when asked about the bad one, she explained. I talked to our Sr VP about one of the managers last week (asking permission to go over and around the manager so I could get work done) and the VP acknowledged that Incompetent Manager was a roadblock and a hindrance to our departments goals, but, hes the *nicest* guy youll ever meet!. What it means is that these two people do not get on, and in my experience, it usually points to an incompetent or otherwise bad manager. No one is going to live in abject poverty due to this bad reference. Spending a gift card after you gave it to someone is a horrible thing to do, and its every bit as much theft as taking back cash you gave them. 1% or so of negative references that actually have a good reason behind them. Its worth the effort to try to get to a different space in your thinking for your own health. I like this one. Good points. OP1, be very careful about libel/slander laws where you are. Discuss problem areas and provide concrete examples, so the hiring manager can accurately assess whether the employee has potential and just needs heavy supervision or more training. Do not give bad references. Does he have potential to do y? Alison frequently talks about the importance of taking information youve learned from references and talking to the candidate about it, especially if they got good references from most people and then one terrible one. I log gift cards in my budget software, with the card number, expiry date and balance. Likewise if the posting is on a board or site with a Click here to apply mechanism that doesnt include a cover letter option, then people arent able to include it.

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